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6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM Problems & Solutions - Transmission Repair Cost Guide Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. Remember, this is just a theory. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. LT1 & LT4 engines - Bowler Transmissions Shift the transmission to Neutral. Sixth 1.28 (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. Gm hydro 10 speed. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. That is just the beginning. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. New Ford/GM 10-Speed Automatic Transmission: 10 Things to Know Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. $3,245*. Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. 6L80, 6L90 Transmissions: Consider an Updated Converter in - Sonnax Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. GM 10-Speed 10L80 Automatic Transmission | GM Authority For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. yr=d.getFullYear(); $499.00. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. Shift the transmission to Reverse. Nov 26 . Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. We are High Performance Transmission Builders Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. Engine torque rating increases minimally, but the output torque rating of the transmission jumps up by nearly 220 ft. lbs. Ford describes their two different shift strategies as single and double step shifts. Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. What is your recomendation for towing? This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. Required fields are marked *. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. Thanks Jeff. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. GM Transmission Dimensions - Pace Performance Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. 8l90 vs 10l80 - Surabayapestcontrol.com Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. Thank you. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Your email address will not be published. 10 Speed 10L80 Transmission Build! ATFSpeed - YouTube That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. LS2/TH400 vs L92/6L80e | Pirate 4x4 In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. The Great Chevy Auto Trans Interchange Guide - Street Muscle Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. 4. Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! Thought's? vehicle weights. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! Ask Away! with Jeff Smith: Explaining 6-, 8-, and 10 - OnAllCylinders But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. Tap-2000 | 6l80e/6l90e Tap Shifter Kit 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System - Transmission Digest Thought's? I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. You are browsing camaro6. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. Third 2.15 Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. 1. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. Members The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. More or less a TT V8 german car so if the new 8 or 10 speed GM transmission would work where the 6L80E came originally and the CTS V, SS Sedan, and ZL1 Brembo brakes work it could be a great platform. 4L80E vs 6L80E - Are two extra gears worth it? - Pro-Touring.com * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. Note, some customers may complain of a converter type whine noise coming from the transmission. GM states, ". If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. Sonnax 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit - T35-GMFD-01K It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. Ninth 0.69 Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. The button for Tap control is on the top of the shifter, making it easy to use in both left and right hand drive vehicles. GM was still using their trustworthy 4L80E transmissions for heavier duty use, which was essentially a 1960's technologyTH400with added 1990's overdrive and electronic controls. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. August 8, 2022. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. This took the dealership a much longer period of time in acquiring these bolts for Brian to complete the job. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. GM Transmissions that work with a Vortec or LS Motor LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Transmission Fluid Change flush 2007-2012 Silverado GMC Sierra 6L80E Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. to 885 ft. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. Wait 2 seconds. You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. This is the abridged version of my problem. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. Now, the high-speed CAN network allows a high rate of data sharing between the units to achieve a collaboration between both engine and transmission functions. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. Where Did The Front Pump Go on Ford's New 10R80 10-Speed Trans? Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. Online Buyer's Guide As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. Put simply, its the converter. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. SuperMatic 6L80-E Automatic Transmission | Chevrolet Performance 10L80 Transmission Rebuild Parts | Raybestos Powertrain TIPM Problems! That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Wait 2 seconds. A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. Thats pretty much all thats to it. But its interesting to note that there is a very low cover/piston failure rate for the 4L60-E TMBX converter. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. This is a normal and desired behavior. Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. if (yr!=2012) * WILL ALLOW USE . Thats a great question. Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? This transmission is out of a Tur. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. None of the above categories describe me. We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from!